Marc Andreessen: ‘Every Signal Is Being Sent’ Trump DOJ Official Harmeet Dhillon Will Drop Hammer On Woke Corporations

Billionaire investor and Donald Trump adviser Marc Andreessen thinks corporate culture is about to undergo a radical change. Speaking with Erik Torenberg on the Moment of Zen podcast, Andreessen said that the reign of extreme wokeness, particularly in corporate America and the media, is rapidly coming to an end.

The catalyst? A combination of rising legal risks, the deflation of wokeness as a cultural force, and a change in leadership at the Department of Justice. Andreessen highlighted that with the appointment of Harmeet Dhillon to head the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division, the federal government may soon begin to challenge and reverse many of the DEI-driven policies that have dominated corporations, universities, and other large institutions over the past decade.

This shift, he argues, could trigger a major pullback in DEI initiatives across the private sector, as companies scramble to comply with the law and distance themselves from policies that may now be seen as legally and culturally untenable.

.@pmarca to @eriktorenberg: ‘Every Signal is Being Sent’ Trump DOJ Civil Rights Head Will Target Corporate DEI Policies

“If you wanted to pick the most extreme possible attorney to put in charge of the Civil Rights division of the Justice Department to reverse DEI, it would be… pic.twitter.com/NNH2uTWn1t

— CAPITAL (@capitalnewshq) December 27, 2024

Erik Torenberg: You’re optimistic now that this reign of soft authoritarianism, aka extreme wokeness, is over. There’s a question of will it just come back again in four years? Now that Trump will take power, will they sort of summon the resistance antibodies again? Talk a little bit about your perspective.

Marc Andreessen: I think that “wokeness is over” is a little bit too glib, and the main reason why that’s the case I think, you know, maybe is self-evident, which is basically the bureaucracies of corporate America and of the government and of nonprofits, foundations, schools, universities, the media companies, the press — basically, the big bureaucracies, what we refer to as sort of the managerial class. The cathedral, Curtis’ term, or James Burnham’s term, the managerial class, the managers who sort of run everything — and by everything being like basically all of the large incumbent institutions — like, wokeness has become standard policy, right? And in like every large organization in the country, like the mandate number one is be compliant, right? Whatever is required to be compliant is like holy, right? It’s like the thing that cannot be — you must be compliant. You must check off all the compliance boxes. Whether you win or not in the market is kind of optional, but you must be compliant. Whether you actually teach students anything is optional, but you must be compliant.

Wokeness has become part of the compliance regime, also what they refer to wonderfully in great Orwellian terms as the ‘risk management regime,’ the ‘trust and safety regime.’ Yeah, you know, just take all these words and reverse them. This stuff has gotten wired very deeply, and then it’s been well-documented at this point that the foundation for a lot of what we call wokeness is actually baked deeply into the law. And a whole bunch of people have done great work, like Richard Hanania, Christopher Caldwell, and Wesley [Yang], who have all done great work in documenting kind of how deep this stuff is sort of embedded in the law, which is a whole other topic.

There’s an institutionalization that took place that’s going to take optimistically 30 years to get out or something like that. And by the way, maybe never. Having said that, there’s that. But then there’s what we’ve been dealing with for the last decade, which is beyond that — which is sort of the idea of wokeness being like the cultural vanguard, yeah, and basically being the thing that’s like the coolest, highest-status, highest-fashion thing you can possibly be, and the thing that you have to be if you want to aspire to rise in the hierarchy and among the managerial class and run things. And then, if you want to get like really good press coverage, and if you want people to think that you’re a moral person—that whole thing.

Then there’s the power component of it. I use the Tolkien metaphor here, the ‘ring of power,’ which is the ability to call somebody a bad name under the wokeness regime and like instantly vaporize them and blow them out of their job and take their job. Like those second parts are like, I think, fading very fast. And in a lot of ways, it’s sort of inevitable that would happen, because it’s just like in fashion, whatever is cool and trending now looks dated five or ten years later. And you wonder how people possibly could have worn bell bottoms or whatever. Like, you know, it’s that kind of phenomenon. And there’s no question, the election basically punched a giant hole in the side of that balloon, and it’s deflating incredibly quickly. And by the way, you see it in the reaction. You see it in the reaction to the election itself, which is the polar opposite reaction to 2016, which is just like complete deflation taking place. And I think wokeness is losing altitude quickly. But let’s come back to the legal part, because that’s also — there are very interesting things that might happen there that we could also talk about.”

Erik Torenberg: Say more about this.

Marc Andreessen: If you wanted to pick the most extreme possible attorney to put in charge of the Civil Rights division of the Justice Department to reverse DEI, it would be this lawyer named Harmeet Dhillon. She’s been a California lawyer and has been the scourge of woke corporations for the last decade. As it happens, she has just been appointed to run the Civil Rights division of the Justice Department. For those who don’t track this, the Civil Rights division of the Justice Department is the federal government’s prosecutorial arm that basically enforces wokeness. They’re the ones who have made sure that, for the last decade, these companies have had all these crazy policies under the penalty of being investigated, subpoenaed, and ultimately prosecuted.

There have been lots of prosecutions and court cases. The most famous case that the current head of the Civil Rights division brought was the case against SpaceX for not hiring enough refugees—despite the fact that SpaceX is a military contractor and is not permitted to hire non-American citizens under a separate law.The person running that division has been a true activist, as you’d expect from this administration. And then Dhillon, who, by the way, I don’t know but I’ve been following for years, and is clearly brilliant, she is the exact opposite of that. Every signal is being sent that they’re going to do a 180 on all these things, and they’re going to begin prosecuting companies for violations of civil rights laws in the form of reverse discrimination—discrimination against white people, Asians, Jews, and other unprotected classes.

So, signals are being sent by these appointments that there is going to be an assault to reverse the assault that companies and universities have been under. And then, of course, the Supreme Court ruled not that long ago that private universities are not allowed to do race-based admissions. It’s actually really funny because there’s some question as to whether the demographic shift of admissions in the last year was starkly different than the year before, as these institutions claim they’re coming into compliance with the Supreme Court. There’s some question as to whether discovery will show they’re actually in compliance or whether they’re still playing games. That’s another thing we may find out.

There’s also an open question as to whether this decision has essentially already been made or will be made for private companies as well. And there’s a lot of private companies that have been trying to figure out quietly how to distance themselves from DEI, both for legal reasons and for cultural reasons. Now, there’s another very interesting thing kicking in. I think there are a lot of large companies that were already done with DEI to start with. They were done with DEI for their own reasons because it’s backfired in many spectacular ways. But now, any large company that wants to distance itself from DEI has the best reason in the world: compliance. It’s illegal.

Let me just say for the record… I think every major corporation in the country is just in flagrant violation of actual civil rights law. You cannot have these hard quotas and racially, ethnically, and religiously biased hiring practices. It’s flat-out illegal. These companies have gone so extreme on this that they’ve ended up in what I think is clearly mass illegality. So, as Dhillon steps into her job, she’s not going to lack for a shortage of targets. If you don’t want to be a target, it’s a great ‘get out of jail free’ card to just voluntarily shut all this stuff down.

My guess is that starting pretty quickly, we’re already starting to see it. Boeing and a bunch of other companies have already put a bullet in their programs. Even the University of Michigan, which went completely overboard with this stuff, has actually shut their whole thing down. I think we’re going to see, my guess is, a run of companies that will take dramatic action here.

Watch the entire exchange here: